Curse

ubermancer · Aug 03, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I am always amused by people who say that W/E's are bad. Or that the only use they have for their secondary is Shock and Gale for PvP and Armor of Earth for PvE, etc. Luckily...

...I know better. Glyph of Essence is what Id call a bit overpowered. I love skills like that, especially when they look so innocent and have a cute drawback like 'lose all energy'. This skill is awesome, you can precast the glyph, do an attack skill spike, then instantly throw off a powerful spell in <1/4 sec, casting time despite.

Theres a specific reason I said attack skill spike, and thats because of a mechanic thats been nerfed once before but still going strong in this regard. It used to be that Ranger interupts had no aftercast, so they could fire off four 1/4 sec cast interupts in one second... preceed that by a Dual Shot and its no wonder RSpike caught on so fast. They now have a standard 3/4 sec aftercast, same as most spells.

Now, when I think spiking with attack skills I think of Hammer warriors. Hammer Warriors can KD a target for 3 seconds, and get in 2 attack skills (assuming an IAS like Frenzy) before they get back up. Now, unfortunately its difficult to chain adrenal skills as quickly as energy skills because after each one you have to wait for the server to inform the client that the attack hit and you got the adrenalin before the client can tell the server to use another adrenalin skill. Its easiest instead to use an adrenalin, energy, then adrenalin again. Thats why I came up with this chain:

Glyph of Essence + Frenzy + Devastating Hammer + Crushing Blow + Fierce Blow + Phoenix

Its a bit energy intensive so you will have to wait a bit after using Glyph of Essence before you open up the rest of the chain. If you use those skills in proper succession, you will hit your target with Fierce Blow (+42 dmg) and Phoenix (166dmg) simultaneously, and while your target is STILL ON THE GROUND. Keep in mind the attack prior dealt +21 damage and inflicted Deep Wound.

I recommend a Zealous weapon to help you regen your energy. Theres all sorts of other tricks I use with this build to keep my enemies guessing, but youll have to play against me in RA/TA/AB/FA before you get those out of me.

And in case your wondering, the 635dmg I boasted in the title is possible vs a 60 AL target. Base weapon damage is 83 damage on a crit, 102 when Sundering procs on a crit. Add the 100 damage from Deep Wound, 166 from Phoenix, the combined 63 damage from attack skills... and you get an impressive 635 damage. Its much more likely youll average 40 or so points less per hit, so thats roughly 500. Respectable by anyone's measure.

Thoughts, improvements, innovations, complaints, etc?

Sciros Darkblade · Aug 03, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Sick, man. I'm gonna give that a go next time I'm able to play, which will be in a month ;_;

Dollztempta · Aug 03, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Thats cool though, and yea that Zealous is needed for build since Glyph of Essence + Frenzy + Phoenix suck up your energy if no zealous. So can this be also used in PvP?

ubermancer · Aug 03, 2006, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dollztempta

Thats cool though, and yea that Zealous is needed for build since Glyph of Essence + Frenzy + Phoenix suck up your energy if no zealous. So can this be also used in PvP?

This build was designed for PvP. Frenzy, Crushing, and Phoenix add up to 25 energy. Make sure you have very near that much by the time you hit Frenzy. (ie, wait after Essence)

twicky_kid · Aug 03, 2006, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Here batter batter batter and swing......

If this becomes popular here comes the nerf bat.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 03, 2006, 07:43 AM // 07:43

i still think 1 grenth balance while your below 100 health + dev + crushing + fierce would do more damage, but heh, life goes on, but think about over 300-400ish damage + dev + feirce + crushing, i really think more could be done using grenth balance, but yea that would take time to build up since you have to take 400ish damage, but you could speed it up with frenzy

**edit**
also grenth's could be useful in surviving too, and probaly costs less energy or beter on energy, but im not sure, i haven't looked at pheonix's stats

jummeth · Aug 03, 2006, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Isn't pheonix a 3 second cast though?

Sabe · Aug 03, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaero Gouki Kriegor

i still think 1 grenth balance while your below 100 health + dev + crushing + fierce would do more damage, but heh, life goes on, but think about over 300-400ish damage + dev + feirce + crushing, i really think more could be done using grenth balance, but yea that would take time to build up since you have to take 400ish damage, but you could speed it up with frenzy

**edit**
also grenth's could be useful in surviving too, and probaly costs less energy or beter on energy, but im not sure, i haven't looked at pheonix's stats

In respect of the above Grenths balance is an elite and so is devestating hammer.

And in respect of the idea - doesnt seem any better at all than the typical old skool KD/AS build... Which did a tonne of dmg and was quick cast.

Origin · Aug 03, 2006, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

Isn't pheonix a 3 second cast though?

look here

Zui · Aug 03, 2006, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jummeth

Isn't pheonix a 3 second cast though?

He's using Glyph of Essence.

Shadow-Hunter · Aug 03, 2006, 12:33 PM // 12:33

I tried this With My axe.. Using Evisterate - Executionsers + Furious Axe and then Phoenix.. And i gotta say its pretty fing Awwsome O.O Altho it lack a little in healing cus i used 16 Axe + 12 fire >_> But its a pretty sweet idea

~Shadow

SnipiousMax · Aug 03, 2006, 01:57 PM // 13:57

I'm gonna give this a try.

You've really sparked my intrest! :P

XvArchonvX · Aug 03, 2006, 01:59 PM // 13:59

While this skill looks good in theory, if your first spike doesn't take down your target, you are basically left with no energy. Since this will also take up most of your attributes and 6 of your 8 skill slots, you will also be left VERY vulnerable since there is not much room for defense and/or self heal, especially if you are bringing a rez. On top of that, there is no cancel stance for Frenzy, so you will be even more vulnerable until that stance wears out. Also if your target has Protective Spirit on them, then you will basically be shut down, doing very little damage.

This is a nice concept, but I don't think it's overpowered by any means.

ubermancer · Aug 03, 2006, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Remember the attack part of the build takes up 6 skills, leaving two for your choosing. I take Rush and a floating skill.

This build is, imho, better then KDAS because A) its more damage B) the damage is delivered quicker. On the flipside energy is more of a problem.

There is also the fact that if you dont suceed you have to wait a bit before you spike again. This is alright, its an acceptable aspect of the build due to the fact that you do put ALOT of energy into making sure the spike is successful.

Grenths Balanced is not used for a number of reasons. The first of which is that this is PvP and I dont want low health even if I have my hand on GB. Also, I need an attack skill to KD and Devastating Hammer seems perfect, especially with Fierce Blow. And I dont want to have to spend even more energy. AND Grenths Balance is a spell, so IT would trigger Glyph of Essence... utterly defeating the point. Sorry, but GB is far from what I would use here.

I dont think its overpowered, but there is no doubt that its powerful. (I still say Glyph of Essence is overpowered though, Ive come up with a couple builds I wont post here that make this look weak)

Running this in TA I would suggest having a BL monk, the fire W/E, a Prodigy E/Mo with gale and some defensive moves (flash, prot spirit/spirit bond, etc) and another floating spot that I atm have as a Sword W/Rt with Consume Soul. Galing a support character, or shutdown, (like Mesmer, an enemy E/Mo, or secondary Monk) just as your two Warriors close range to their new target (the primary Monk) and unleash their combo. Final Thrust and Lightning Orb should provide enough damage to finish them off.

And if you want to try this with axe, please, for gods sake, DONT use "Evisterate - Executionsers + Furious Axe and then Phoenix". The point of this is providing as much of a damage spike as possible (in a way that they never saw coming), so you will want to precast Glyph of Essence, switch targets to someone who previously had no melee on them, then use Eviscerate+Phoenix.

I honestly wouldnt use Executioners (not that I wouldnt bring it, just not use it in the spike), and rely on my team for the rest of the spike. This way you deal as much damage in as little time as possible... ~80+100+166= ~346 (371 on crit, sundering vamp etc ignored) is more then sufficient damage, and it happens /all at once on a completling unsuspecting target/. Usually Warrior spikes take a couple seconds, most people wont be prepared for them happening in <1/4 sec. Its a little less raw damage then with a hammer but its less energy intesive, fits in the 'shock w/e' premade, and is rechargable easier. A zealous weapon is more effective in recharging your energy in this manner. I like the idea so much Ill go try it out in a couple of minutes.

I guess Frenzy Shock Executioners Eviscerate Phoenix would work but to be honest its probably not worth it... Eviscerate Phoenix doesnt need an IAS (you are not following a damage skill with another damage skill), or even a KD, to be effective.

EDIT:

That is JUST from Eviscerate+Phoenix. I charged adrenalin on another target. So I took a 60AL target down to ~1/3 and put Deep Wound on all at once. Yeah, I might like this even more then the Hammer spike I prescribed at start.

Eldritch Icefist · Aug 03, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Here batter batter batter and swing......

If this becomes popular here comes the nerf bat.

Dont worry, it will as soon as Anet reads this post.

As for coming up with it, keep thinking man, very good idea.

Xaero Gouki Kriegor · Aug 03, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubermancer

Grenths Balance is a spell, so IT would trigger Glyph of Essence... utterly defeating the point.

glyph on a w/n?, but yea i see now, and i see i mistaken dev and gb on the same skill bar

**edit**

but since you cant use gb because its not good for pvp, i would like to see a demonstration screenshot of this working effectively in pvp, ra or something, just seems too dependant to work in a more chaotic enviroment where people dont allow you to get all ready by charging up your adren and using your glyphs

twicky_kid · Aug 03, 2006, 09:42 PM // 21:42

After playing this its really no different than aftershock or holy strike. The only advantage this gives is an extra attack while the foe is on the ground.

Btw for hammers use auspicous blow to gain 8 energy for the killing blow.

devistating>crushing>phoenix>auspicious

Sabe · Aug 03, 2006, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Ok if this is PVP most monks as soon as you lay down Eviscerate will hit protective spirit for they know the next incoming will be another hard hit such Executionars.

This is the reason for the knockdown *shock* spike and I really think any decent monk would turn your phoenix dmg into only approximately 50.

With KD/AS the monk has no chance to put protective spirit on if the knockdowns are timed and you hit your final kill with the aftershock.

So therefore imo...any monk that does get killed by this will be one that is not that competent.

Haggard · Aug 03, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

But if you're using the original hammer build, they will be knoced down, and so the same applies as to your kd/as point.

Dark Tykane · Aug 03, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Funny how this is not your idea yet I see no credit to the person who gave you the idea.
A few weeks ago the exact same type of build was posted in the ele forum only it was using daggers. Not your idea or I would say nice build :P
BTW for those who argue if this is over-powered or not, the answer to the arguement is all based on circumstance and opinion. If you think killing a caster instantly is over powered then this is overpowered and yet you might say its not over powered because it takes awhile to be able to to it again. Basically this is assassination the way the Ass may have been invented. Instant kill...wait for it again then do it.
About monks defense against this I think they have no defense unless they have placed PS on themselves before you knock them down. The real class that has deffense against it is the ranger....and block/miss/evade and you wasted a lot.